Author Kevin Pogorzelski talks about football tourism, derbies, and his debut book 'Divided Cities: The World's Most Passionate Single City Derbies'

An insightful interview for football fans seeking the passion of city rivalries

Kevin Pogorzelski is a football connoisseur. He doesn’t just watch football, he absorbs it. Pogorzelski’s life is football 24/7 whether he is writing about it or watching it from the terraces. 

In March 2023, Pogorzelski’s debut book, Divided Cities: The World's Most Passionate Single City Derbies, hit bookshelves around the world. Published by Pitch Publishing, Divided Cities is an exploration of “some of the most wonderful cities on Earth, delving into the rich histories of clubs, and meeting the people who live and breathe the local football culture.”

Since its release, Divided Cities has received rave reviews. I recently had the chance to talk with Pogorzelski about his debut book, football travels, and more. 

Drew: Kev, your debut book, Divided Cities: The World's Most Passionate Single City Derbies, came out in March and has received great reviews. Start off by telling me about the book and your influence behind the writing of it. 

Kevin: Having been a regular match goer at Liverpool for around three decades, I grew somewhat tiresome of watching the same 10 to 15 clubs coming to Anfield each season and offering few new stadium experiences. With a passion for travel, I started adding football fixtures to weekend breaks overseas with my wife and became intrigued by the cultural differences you see from the moment you start travelling to the stadium and the moment you finally make it back to the hotel. 

Around the same time, I changed jobs and was soon invited by a colleague to a football weekend trip with his friends, which became an annual event. However, after our second or third trip, someone suggested that we try and attend a game of greater importance, as we tended to choose a visiting opponent who would not cause us too much difficulty when trying to obtain tickets. For example, Borussia Dortmund versus Bayer Leverkusen and not Schalke. Genoa versus Sampdoria was quickly identified.

I had also started writing for Forza Italian Football, and now a co-founder of Total Italian Football, and as we sat in a bar on the Italian Riviera, having watched a passionate, if low-scoring, contest, it was suggested that I could write about our journey. That seed planted led to the creation of an initial list of games and an investigation of the logistics, and you’ve seen the result of that several years later. 

Drew: How did you come up with your shortlist of derbies to attend? 

Kevin: As I was conscious of falling into endless discussions about why I had selected 10 specific games, I sought out lists that had already been created as reference points. FourFourTwo, Bleacher Report and The Mirror had created lists of greatest-ever derbies or rivalries, so I ignored any not between teams within the same city - believing that these have an extra edge from my familiarity with the Merseyside Derby - and English clubs. However, Liverpool versus Everton eventually snuck in.  

Drew: You made contact with different ultra groups to write Divided Cities. Tell me about this experience. Was it difficult or intimidating to connect with these groups? 

Kevin: The book was never intended to focus and glorify the role ultra groups play in a lot of the wild atmospheres you see at matches, but could not be ignored. As I wanted the experiences to be as authentic as possible, I didn’t actively seek out ultra groups before visiting. However, as my confidence grew in contacting others to help provide some context to the fixture, they inevitably led to them, but also come about through chance encounters during games, my willingness to talk to anybody regardless of language barrier and more. The language barrier, for me, in Buenos Aires was particularly difficult, but it was never intimidating.   

Drew: A lot of football fans associate derbies with violence. Was there ever a point you felt in danger on your travels? 

Kevin: For good or for bad, I probably have too low a concern for my own personal safety at the best of times and am constantly reminded by my wife, Stacey, that wandering into unknown situations and letting my guard down, usually after a few drinks, could or should get me into far more trouble. 

Derbies are arguably the best example of the tribalistic nature of football supporters when they are facing a set of supporters that directly oppose their own, which probably means a travelling tourist cannot quite generate the same level of hatred. The only mugging attempts were linked to football by location, but even then, I cared very little.   

Drew: What makes a good derby? 

Kevin: Supporters! The passion that surrounds these games is so often generated by the supporters. Clinging onto why they hate one another, a famous victory, and never clearer when watching the Superclasico between River Plate and Boca Juniors played with no away fans and Glasgow Rangers forced to take just 600 to Celtic.

Drew: What was the writing experience like? Did you work on the chapters after seeing each game or did you write Divided Cities all at once? 

Kevin: In the weeks and months leading up to a trip, I would research the game as much as I could. Allowing me to appear as knowledgeable as possible whilst quizzing those I meet to understand some of what was going on around me, such as the many fan choreographies ahead of fixtures. After each game, sometimes while still in the city, I would write down my movements from the previous day(s), while the sights and sounds were still fresh in my mind, and also refer to any pictures or voice notes I had made. The Covid-19 pandemic provided the time to perfect how the chapters flowed into each other without any direct link.

Drew: What was your favourite derby from the book? 

Kevin: My answer is usually none. There are elements of each that I preferred more than others. The city of Buenos Aires, the drama of Roma-Lazio, etc. However, Seville holds a special place in my heart, because it was the last stop on my travels and a wonderful experience felt like the result of everything I had experienced up to that point.   

Drew: You recently were on a trip to Argentina. You were at a match almost every day, and your pictures looked fantastic. Tell me about your trip and the games you attended. 

Kevin: Although I only spent 72 hours in Buenos Aires for the Superclasico, I fell in love with the city and the passion the people have for football, and have been quite a big Diego Maradona fan since a kid. When I returned home,  I insisted that I had to return to celebrate a milestone birthday and absorb as much football as possible. As I had seen the Superclasico at El Monumental, Boca Juniors at La Bombonera was a must and we saw them in the Copa Libertadores halfway through the trip. It began with a visit to Huracan, Lanus, and Arsenal de Sarandi before a local San Lorenzo fan slipped me in with their ultras, Ferro Carril Oeste was the first of two second division games. The second included a huge firework display from the Nueva Chicago fans, and we finished with two games, Independiente and Banfield, on our final day in Argentina. A must, in my opinion, for any groundhopper.

Drew: Was the trip to Argentina for a Divided Cities sequel? 

Kevin: Yes and no. There were no games that will feature in a sequel, but Buenos Aires will. Therefore, the trip will provide some context when Independiente v Racing Club is experienced some time in the future.

Drew: Can you tell me about the next Divided Cities or is it too early to talk about it?

Kevin: The preparation has started, with leagues announcing fixtures almost daily at the moment. There is a longer shortlist to attend this time and researching those cities and fixtures is underway. Now the most regularly featured fixtures have been covered, there is a bit more scope to go with the first 10 I can experience, and have even had some invitations from fans who want their derby included in Divided Cities 2.

 

Drew: Kev, you are the definition of a football tourist. How many countries and games have you attended in 2023? 

Kevin: This calendar year has seen me attend 37 matches in 5 countries, achieving, I think, a personal best of 19 new stadiums. 

Drew: I’d be remised if I didn’t mention Total Italian Football. Tell me about the website you co-founded.  

Kevin: Rather than think of the website as “new”, it is a continuation of the work the co-founders have done with each other for a number of years in other forms, and born from a love of the Italian game. Unlike some Italian football outlets, Total Italian Football has a number of journalists and writers reporting live from Italian stadia in both domestic and continental actions, which enriches the content we provide, and there are no English language outlets providing as much coverage of the women’s game on the peninsula. 

Drew: How has the publication of Divided Cities changed you as a writer and your career writing about football?

Kevin: It has improved my own confidence in my writing and added an element of validation to my work, and more approaches to contribute to other outlets. That has given me the motivation to dedicate more time to my football writing when the time spent on other activities allows, that is.

You can learn more about Kevin Pogorzelski and his book, Divided Cities: The World's Most Passionate Single City Derbies, by visiting Amazon or the Pitch Publishing website. You can also purchase Pogorzelski’s book from fine booksellers everywhere.

These are not affiliate links, and Drew FC makes no commission off any book sales.